President-elect Donald Trump vowed to make immediate and sweeping changes after he takes office on Jan. 20, such as pardons for those convicted in the attack on the U.S. Capitol, and said he wants to find a legislative solution to keep Dreamers in the country legally.
In an interview with Kristen Welker, moderator of NBC News’ “Meet the Press,” Trump also said he’ll work to extend the tax cuts passed in his first term. He said he will not seek to impose restrictions on abortion pills. He plans to deport millions of undocumented immigrants and try to end birthright citizenship. And he said the pardons for Jan. 6 rioters will happen on day one, arguing many have endured overly harsh treatment in prison.
“These people are living in hell,” he said.
Trump’s first postelection network television interview took place Friday at Trump Tower in Manhattan, where he spoke for more than an hour about policy plans Americans can expect in his next term.
Trump said he would fulfill a campaign promise to levy tariffs on imports from America’s biggest trading partners. In a noteworthy moment, he conceded uncertainty when Welker asked if he could “guarantee American families won’t pay more” as a result of his plan.
“I can’t guarantee anything,” Trump said. “I can’t guarantee tomorrow.”
Trump also said he will not raise the age for government programs like Social Security and Medicare and will not make cuts to them as part of spending reduction efforts led by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. Asked if “raising ages or any of that stuff” was “off the table,” Trump agreed, saying, “I won’t do it.”
Trump spoke in a calm, measured tone and at times sparred with Welker when she fact-checked him. He seemed heartened by the scope of his victory on Nov. 5. After winning the popular vote and capturing all seven of the key battleground states, he said with pride, “I’m getting called by everybody.”
He’s heard from Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon and owner of The Washington Post: “We’re having dinner,” he said.
“People like me now, you know?” he said, adding: “It’s different than the first — you know, when I won the first time, I wasn’t nearly as popular as this. And one thing that’s very important, in terms of the election, I love that I won the popular vote, and by a lot.”
‘Maybe he should’
Trump did segue into familiar grievances. He would not concede that he lost the 2020 election. Asked how, in his view, Democrats stole that election but not this one even though they control the White House, Trump said, “Because I think it was too big to rig.”
He blamed President Joe Biden for the nation’s political divide and heaped insults on perceived foes. Adam Schiff, the incoming Democratic senator from California, is “a real lowlife,” he said.
But he delivered something of a mixed message when it comes to political retribution. Trump made clear he believes he’s been wronged, but he also sounded a conciliatory note, saying he will not appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Biden. “I’m not looking to go back into the past,” he said. “Retribution will be through success.”
A fear among Trump’s political opponents is that he’ll use the government’s fearsome investigative machinery to exact vengeance. He has chosen two allies for top law enforcement positions: Pam Bondi for attorney general and Kash Patel for FBI director. If confirmed, Trump suggested, they’d have autonomy in how they go about enforcing the law.
Yet he also singled out people he believes crossed the line in investigating his actions, calling special counsel Jack Smith “very corrupt.”
Members of the House committee that examined the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol were “political thugs and, you know, creeps,” committing offenses in going about their work, he said.
“For what they did, honestly, they should go to jail,” Trump said.
Asked if he would direct the Justice Department and FBI to punish them, Trump said, “No, not at all. I think that they’ll have to look at that, but I’m not going to — I’m going to focus on drill, baby, drill” — a reference to tapping more oil supplies.
If Biden wants to do it, he could pardon the committee members, Trump said, “and maybe he should.”
Minimum wage, immigration and Obamacare
The interview covered a range of topics — during which he continued to keep some space between himself and the conservative “Project 2025” that was intended to be a blueprint for his administration to implement new policies. But while he once disavowed the policy guidebook, he embraced it more closely and agreed some of the drafters are now part of his incoming administration.
“Many of those things I happen to agree with,” Trump said.
He said he would consider raising the federal minimum wage, which has been $7.25 an hour since 2009, but would like to consult with the nation’s governors. “I will agree, it’s a very low number,” he said.
He said he’ll release his full medical records. Trump will be 82 by the time his term ends in 2029 — the same age Biden is now. He said he doesn’t plan to divest from Truth Social, the billion-dollar platform he launched after leaving office. “I don’t know what’s to divest,” he said. “All I do is I put out messages.” And he said he will not try to replace Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, whom he has criticized in the past.
He said his children won’t join him as White House aides, a departure from his last term, when daughter Ivanka Trump and son-in-law Jared Kushner both served as senior advisers with West Wing offices. “I’ll miss them,” he said. He didn’t address a question about what role his wife, Melania Trump, will play in the new term, though he described the future first lady as both “very elegant” and “very popular.”
Immigration was the centerpiece of Trump’s campaign, and he didn’t flinch in saying he will carry out mass deportation of those who are living in the country illegally.
First will be convicted criminals, he said. Pressed on whether the targets would go beyond that group, Trump added: “Well, I think you have to do it, and it’s a hard — it’s a very tough thing to do. It’s — but you have to have, you know, you have rules, regulations, laws. They came in illegally.”
It’s also possible that American citizens will be caught up in the sweep and deported with family members who are here illegally, or could choose to go.
Asked about families with mixed immigration status, where some are in the U.S. legally and some illegally, Trump said, “I don’t want to be breaking up families, so the only way you don’t break up the family is you keep them together and you have to send them all back.”
The expense and logistical complexities of deporting millions of people haven’t deterred him, he said.
“You have no choice,” he said. “First of all, they’re costing us a fortune. But we’re starting with the criminals, and we’ve got to do it. And then we’re starting with the others, and we’re going to see how it goes.”
An exception might be the “Dreamers” — people who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children and have lived here for years. He voiced openness toward a legislative solution that would allow them to remain in the country.
“I will work with the Democrats on a plan,” he said, praising “Dreamers” who’ve gotten good jobs, started businesses and become successful residents. “We’re going to have to do something with them,” he said.
He also said he intends to eliminate birthright citizenship, the protection enshrined in the 14th Amendment that guarantees citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil regardless of their parents. Asked about the likelihood that doing so unilaterally would face legal opposition, Trump said he would consider amending the Constitution.
“We’ll maybe have to go back to the people,” Trump said. “But we have to end it.”
During Trump’s one debate with Vice President Kamala Harris, he was criticized for saying he had “concepts of a plan” to replace the Affordable Care Act, the health care law signed by President Barack Obama.
It’s not clear Trump’s ideas have evolved further.
“Obamacare stinks,” he said. “If we come up with a better answer, I would present that answer to Democrats and to everybody else and I’d do something about it.”
When will he have a developed plan? “Well, I don’t know that you’ll see it at all,” Trump said, adding that health care experts are studying possible alternatives.
Foreign policy
Later Friday after the interview, Trump flew to Paris for a ceremony marking the reopening of the Notre Dame Cathedral, which had been devastated by a fire.
After arriving, he met privately with French President Emmanuel Macron and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who posted on social media that the trio talked about reaching “a just peace” in his country’s war with Russia. Zelenskyy joined for roughly the last 10 minutes of the meeting, a Trump transition official said.
In the interview with “Meet the Press,” Trump said he is actively trying to end the war, “if I can,” adding that Ukraine can “possibly” expect it won’t get as much military aid from the U.S. when he’s back in office.
He would not commit to keeping the U.S. in NATO, the European military alliance that has been a bulwark against Russia since World War II. “If they pay their bills, absolutely,” he would preserve America’s role in the alliance, he said.
On another foreign policy front, Trump expressed doubt that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad will be able to remain in power.
“It’s amazing, because he stayed for years under you would think much more adverse conditions, and all of the sudden, just rebels are going and they’re taking over large pieces of territory,” Trump said. “People have bet against him for a long time, and so far that hasn’t worked. But this seems to be different.”
‘No American carnage’
One phrase that leapt out of Trump’s first inaugural address in 2017: “American carnage.” It evoked a nation ravaged by crime and saddled with rusting factories.
This time, Trump said the takeaway from his inaugural speech will be different.
“We’re going to have a message,” he said. “It will make you happy: unity. It’s going to be a message of unity.”
“And no American carnage?” Welker asked.
“No American carnage, no,” the 45th and soon-to-be 47th president said.
Asked for his message to the Americans who didn’t vote for him, Trump compared them to his most strident supporters — a shift from his campaign rhetoric.
“I’m going to treat you,” he said, “every bit as well as I have treated the greatest MAGA supporters.”
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